Moving to Ecuador....Do I Lawyer Up or Not?

We had made an offer on a new home in Cuenca that was accepted. We were awaiting the paperwork process for our closing and had arranged to visit again what we hoped would be our new home to take some room and window measurements. While going through the house with the seller, she turned and inquired: "Senor, why are you using a lawyer to help you buy this house? It must be costing you extra money"? That same week Immigration officials from Quito held a public meeting to review the various visa processes for expatriates in which they touted the new website tracking process for applications. They virtually told the audience that spending money to hire lawyers to help with visa applications was expensive and not necessary.

As part of our two month exploratory process in this city last summer, the Yazells researched the types of assistance available to hopeful expatriates, both from the professional legal community as well as other services offering assistance as simple advisors and assistants. We interviewed attorneys and before we returned to the U.S., we had formally retained a pair of lawyers to assist and advise us in both the visa application process and in procurring home ownership. We had even filed powers of attorney with them so they could legally act on our behalf in Ecuador, if necessary, before our planned return in January. Were we spending money excessively or unnecessarily? We didn't think so at the time and now that we have become home owners in Cuenca and have been approved for residency in Ecuador, we still don't think that hiring our attorneys was an unnecessary or unwarranted expense. To the contrary, we think that not having hired our attorneys and having saved the fees we paid them would have been, as the Brits say, been "penny-wise and pound-foolish". Our legal fees were to us money well spent.

As I responded to the Senora who had inquired as to why I had involved a lawyer. I am a newcomer to this land, not at all well conversant in the language, unfamiliar with common practice and customs, uneducated as to the rights of citizens and visitors, thoroughly unfamiliar with the intricacies of Ecuadorian law. Hiring a lawyer gave me a reference resource, a sounding board, and (presuming I hired wisely) a strong advocate for my interests and for my protection. I look upon the legal fees that we've spent in the much the same way as I would at insurance premiums. If there aren't any issues that require attention, it may not be obvious as to the benefit but when an issue arises is when the expenditure shows its value.

In our case, problems have been relatively few and were quickly addressed. Part of the reason was probably the time we spent with our attorneys. We were very forthright in what kind of help and assistance we needed and were also prepared with what could best be described as a humongous boatload of questions. (When we ran out of questions, we went home, put on a pot of coffee and reviewed all the answers we had until at least a dozen or more questions came to mind!). Our attorneys were equally as forthright in what we could expect them to do, what OUR roles and responsibilities were and they were as productive(not to mention patient) in providing answers, instructions and suggestions as we were in proving inquiries. In short, we were fortunate in creating a partnership with our attorneys.

Each of you has to make the decision for yourselves, but based on our experience and some of what we have seen and heard, we think hiring a competent bilingual law firm to assist in the process is a sound insvestment in your transition to becoming an expatriate. Having said that, keep these things in mind:

1. You are responsible for doing YOUR due diligence and making good decisions. Paying for a lawyer does NOT absolve you of this responsibility.

2. If you fail to execute or make a stupid decision, no amount of legal fees will be able to quickly resolve the problems that will result. Nor will you be able to point your finger at the lawyer for those problems.

3. As in most business relationships, the key is for you and your lawyer to thoroughly discuss upfront what the goals and objectives are, to formulate a plan to reach them and to decide on a proper division of tasks and responsibilities to reach them. Your lawyer is a strategic advisor and counselor in this process and you're the decision maker, but you both must be in agreement in order for the plan to be successfully executed.

4. As in all tasks associated with your move, do, do, do your homework and when you think you've done enough, do some more. Ask, ask, ask all the questions you can can and then ask some more.

In our case, I think the process of working together well with our attorneys (as well as some good old fashioned luck) contributed greatly to our being able to close on the house we wanted within ten days of first offer, despite having to work through a utility enchroachment issue. It was also evident in getting final approval for our residency visas in just under eight weeks from first filing (holiday period included).

Time and effort are equivalent to spending money. You'll save those if you carefully choose your legal representative and work well with them. Our experience may not be yours, but we will always say "YES" to those who ask "Should I lawyer up or not if I plan to move to Ecuador?"

If asked for a reccomendation, we will proudly disclose that our legal representatives were the professional, Cuenca-based husband and wife team of Nelson Idrovo and Grace Velastegui. They and their two assistants, Rebecca and Priscilla were, and continue to be valued and trusted resources as we make Ecuador our home base and as we continue "juntos en el camino de la vida".

Buying a Home in Cuenca

The Yazell's search for a home in Cuenca actually began last summer during our two month "trial run". We looked at a number of condos and houses and made the decision back then that purchasing a house was our preferred route to follow. For us, the desire to have living space "outdoors" outweighted some of the security advantages of a condominium. Deciding the type of home you want to find in Cuenca is probably as important as setting a price range, so we really suggest that anyone seeking to move here do some homework and really hone in on the type of property that makes sense for them. Rental vs purchase is probably the first initial choice. House or condo will probably require a lot of research. Most houses will require some extensive remodeling (by the way, this is probably true of rental as well as purchased property). Location is another big factor. Initially we set a 2 km radius of Parque Calderon but later modified that area. As we explored a lot of neighborhoods and also became familiar with bus routes that allowed us to go beyond own "walking distance" and also helped defined areas we felt were the kind of neighborhoods we would enjoy. There is nothing that beats walking a neighborhood and talking to the people that reside there for deciding if you would enjoy living in that area.

By the time we returned to the US in August, we had a good idea of what we were looking for. We had also decided upon an attorney that would assist us in the closing process. Further, we had met and decided upon an architect we would use for any remodeling needs. In fact, we had estimates for remodeling one house that we decided to make an offer on after we returned to the US. We ended up not getting that house as another buyer out bid us on the price.

After losing out on that house, we decided that we would, as they say, "hit the ground running" upon our return in January. We had made arrangements to recruit the help of an Ecuadorian friend we had met over our summer visit. We emailed all the new friends we had met in Cuenca shortly before our return and nearly every one responded with ideas, references to realtors they had worked with or they sent notes on houses they had seen personally, online or in the paper. We really felt prepared.

There were a few hiccups. Our Ecuadorian friend was in Panama upon our return helping his son relocate. One of the realtors we had contacted was a no-show for our appointment, another emailed and called but took ten days to even set a time to get together and then spent more time trying to get us let her handle our resident visa application than showing us property. To cap things off, Suzanne and I both came down with a case of the Cuenca bubonic "gunkies" which sidelined us for almost a week

You have to realize that house hunting is a very "hands-on" and involved process here. There is no MLS service to make searching easy. Most home owners will attempt to sell property themselves. While there are dozens of real estate agencies in Cuenca, if you are not bilingual, you probably won't find most of them or even their websites. The most easily found real estate websites in English are well executed with good listing information. Quite frankly, while their listings are well presented and informative, they tend to represent the highest priced listings in the market. Also their services can almost be described as mercenary, often charging commission fees simultaneously to buyer and seller and even charging by the hour to show property to prospective buyers. They are obviously fulfilling a need and obviously very successful at what they do. However, the expatriate who utilizes these services will likely pay wel above the market average for property he secures through them. If you are unprepared to do your own market research, homework, legwork and due deligence, these services may end ubeing your only viable and best option.

We were fortunate enough to have learned some of the basics, developed a little understanding of the marketplace and to have formulated a good sense of what would meet our needs. We were also blessed to have been referred to an excellent, hard-working, bilingual, Ecuadorian real estate agent: Monica Rodas Albornoz with Consorcio Cuencea Bienes Raices. Their office is located on Doce de Abril near the intersection of Av. Unidad Nacional. (online at www.cuencabienes raices.com). Within a couple of days Monica had really honed in on the kind of property we wanted (she had even taken the address of some houses we had seen on walks and investigated them for us). We very quickly ended up with two viable candidates. One was a house that required some repair and remodeling so we arranged to have architect Marcelo Sempertegui prepare some plans and a quote. The other house was virtually new, having been completed only the previous Semptember. It had never been occupied due to relocation of the owner. It was a true find and was virtually move-in ready even down to meeting our "gringo" standards for multiple outlets in every room and multiple prewired locations for TV, internet and phone. We decided to go for this house and our offer was accepted within hours.

We had some concern about a utility pole anchor that was implanted smack dab in the middle of our front courtyard so we added a contingency clause to the sales contract. (This is something very rarely done in Ecuador). We were concerned this might cause a long delay but we actually resolved the utility company encroachment, cleared the title, closed the sale and took possesion of the property within ten calendar days.

Suzanne and I are now the proud owners of a 218 sq meter beauty in the western part of Cuenca. We've already met two of our new neighbors and are looking forward in the next couple of weeks to getting enough basics installed so we can move in ahead of our container arrival.

After being vagabonds here, in Thailand, and in the U.S. for the past eight months, we are now looking forward to our new home and base as we continue "juntos en el camino de la vida".

Settling in at Home in Cuenca!

The past two evenings, the night view from our eighth floor rental apartment has included some spectacular fireworks. Not sure of the reason but they reflect more "pinch me, I'm not dreaming, I really am retired and living here in Ecuador" moments. Roger will be taking a cooking class tomorrow, there's a free Mozart concert on Wednesday and a bottle of wine is sure to figure in the week's itinerary somewhere. We are thankful and blessed to be fulfilling our dream!

We are also estatic that we were able to execute a sale agreement on a house. If everything falls into place as expected, we will be into our new home in Ecuador no later than mid March. In the midst of all this, our 12-IX visa was registered in Quito and our application for permanent residency has been accepted and assigned a case number.

The Yazells seem to have landed...maybe that's the reason for all the fireworks here! In any case, we are joyous that we will soon have a new home base to continue our adventures "juntos en el camino de la vida".

Fresh fruit and produce from the Coopera!

Pepino Dulce is a slightly less than grapefruit sized beige fruit with purple stripes on it. It's in the cucumber family but has a pear like pulp in a large apple shape. It was one of four fresh fruits in my breakfast fruit salad this morning (apple, pepino dulce, papaya and oritos). Orito is one of the many types of banana found here in Ecuador (this country is the world's largest exporter of bananas). It is about half the size of the banana commonly found in the U.S.A. It has a thinner akin but a richer, denser and creamier tasting fruit inside.

All of the items in my morning fruit salad were purchased at the coopera, our favorite place to shop for fresh fruit and vegetables. There may be some savings and even more variety found at the nearby Feria Libre, (Cuenca's largest mercado, but you often have to buy in larger bulk quantities. That isn't as easy for a two person household to consume especially when we typically eat out often. The almost as affordable coopera is a farmer's coop founded in nearby San Joaquin and all its offerings are otganically grown. The prices are extremely reasonble and will be even more so when we get our membership discount.

Here's a breakdown of our most recent shopping trip at the coopera:

2 large limes .13
1 pepino dulce .62
3 lg boneless, skinless chicken breasts 3.73
1 doz oritos .22
2 large avocadoes .77
1 head iceburg lettuce .46
3 large carrots .27
4 small white potatoes .23
1 large ginger root .35
1 large cucumber .37
1 large red onion .19
3 large red apples 1.02
4 large red tomatoes .72
1 jar fresh organic clover honey 3.01
1 large Hawaiian papaya 1.04

Total: 13.13

Note that the most expensive produce items (the Mac apples and the papaya) were imported. For those that are curious, the chicken breasts worked out to about $2.00 a pound.

Fresh fruit and veggies are a mainstay for us here in Ecuador and we love both the quality and the freshness we get shopping at the coopera. One of the first things we noticed when we were back in the states for a few months was a sharp drop in the quality and flavor of the fresh produce even when obtained it from what had been our favorite store for produce.

If you enjoy preparing your own meals, the opportunity to affordably enjoy the best in fresh produce will become one of your incentives for choosing Ecuador as a home. It has been for us and we look forward to many meals highlighting quality fruit and vegetables as we continue: "juntos en el camino de la vida".

We're Back !

We made it! There were times over the past seven-plus months when it looked like living out of suitcases and in other people's homes or rental rooms was going to go on forever. However the big day finally arrived...we hit the tarmack in Guayaquil at 5:25 am on Saturday. By 6:10, we were loaded up and on the road to Cuenca.

(note to self...remember to blog later about the drive over the Cajas)

By 10:00am, we were in our LaQuadra rental, our home while we house hunt. By Noon we were wiped out and settled in for a nap! Back up at four to shop (local friends had already tipped Suzanne to the one time only sale at Sukasa and we also needed some things from nearby Supermaxi). We ate out, shopped and returned to the apartment in time to watch a movie and crash at the late hour of 8:15pm.

We were tired but it was good to back home. Besides, we needed a good night's sleep. A walk to the parque and a trip to the flower market was on tap for our first full day home.

As friend Clarke Green oft reminds us: Life is sweet!

Bye, Bye Chico's!

Back in the 90's when we lived in Pembroke Pines, Florida, I took Suzanne for a beach getaway to Sanibel/Captiva Islands on the gulf coast. It was there she discovered Chico's. Back then they didn't refer to it as "The Original Chico's", the way they do today. You see back then, it was still a small emerging retailer. In fact there were only two or three stores.
It was a love affair at first sight and as their relationship grew, oh my,oh my, how Chico's grew! I remember the opening of multiple stores in Arizona after we relocated there in 1999.
I remarked to co-workers when Chico's went public that I should buy some stock as a hedge against our purchases there. (I should have! The stock price soared to more than twice its initial cost in the first year!)

Suzanne wasn't just fond of a particular Chico's....she shopped them all and she could tell you all the subtle differences. She knew when and what type of new merchandise would arrive and when it was likely to go on sale at a particular store. She shopped frequently enough that at least two stores in the Phoenix market even knew ME on a first name basis and I was always offered water, tea or coffee when we came in together.

I don't know if Suzanne was the true customer inspiration for Chico's preferred customer "passport" program but she certainly was the poster child for its success. Hardly a half week went by without a special email from them. The general jist was " Suzanne, we love you and miss you, please come shop with us again." They were usually followed by a personal phone call from at least two different stores announcing a special discount or preferred customers hours. One store manager even promised cookies and refreshment for your husband. It all worked and Suzanne loved the style and quality of the items she bought. Suzanne's wardrobe is overwhelmingly dominated by items from Chico's.

When it came to our final holiday gathering, she received three Chico's gift cards. Hubby wasn't among those...I had already scored on a vested jacket that was 50% off plus I got an additional 15% special early passport shopper's discount by using her passport id number. The amount of that gift puchase also earned credits toward a discount on her next purchase. (Suzanne trained me well!)

With gift cards in hand and our anniversary coming just behind the holiday, it didn't take long to cash in those gift cards. Our anniversary getaway was a long weekend to Sanibel Island where we enjoyed the sun, the sand, shelling on the beach and, of course, shopping at Chico's. (Interesting how life can bring you full circle, isn't it?). This time, the sign did read "The Original Chico's".

Suzanne thoroughly enjoyed her shopping and used her gift certificates wisely. I scored super mega hubby brownie points for planning a great anniversary trip. And two old best friends got to say goodbye to each other before one headed off to Ecuador.

I wouldn't be at all surprised if someday down the road, our cell phone rings as we're sitting in Parque Calderon and a voice on the other end sweetly whispers: "Suzanne, we love you and miss you. Come shop with us again."

The Yazell's are moving to Ecuador. If you own Chico's stock, prepare for a drop in the share price. You have the option to sell or you may just want to hang on until they announce the company is expanding to South America. My bet is that their first Latin American store will be in Cuenca. I just hope they remember to bring my cookies!

Finishing up the old year: Part 1

   New Years Eve is a traditional time to say goodbye to the old year and look forward to the new.  For the Yazell's, it has additional special meaning because we celebrate our wedding anniversary as well.  We're at 41 and and counting as we continue "juntos en el camino de la vida".

   This new year transition will be especially memorable for us because of the significant changes both the old and new year represent.

   Within the first two weeks of the coming new year, we begin one of our biggest transitions ever, moving to a new home in a new country.  We're excited and full of expectation and know that there's more new adventures ahead than we faced in many a year.  While there will undoubtedly be some anxious moments, we're optimistic about the future in ways we haven't been in long time.

  As we look back at the old year, we're amazed at the changes that occurred and the wonderful experiences we've crammed into a single year.   Both of us became full time retirees during the year.  We've resided a portion of the year in four distinctly different parts of the globe (Mexico, United States, Ecuador and Thailand).  We've chris-crossed the US three separate times and have been in 20 states.  We done countless garage sales, flea markets and hauls to consignment stores in selling off our 40 year accumulation of personal property (We also helped friends in Arizona, our son in Atlanta and Roger's step-mom in Florida clean out stuff in their down sizing efforts.)  Roger even took time to build a new patio for his step mom Mary.

  We blogged and logged countless hours as internet researchers.  We've dealt with a host of government officials and agencies in multiple locations in preparing papers and documents, not to mention preparing new wills, reformulating 401-k's and countless other details associated with our traveling and preparing to move.

  Visits to an old homestead where Suzanne grew up and the church where we were first married in, and overdue visits to cherished old friends in Texas, Iowa and Georgia were also on the agenda during the year.

   Let's not forget making new friends.  We've almost lost count of the many wonderful new people who fall into that category! My oh my, how our email contacts have grown!  Roger's Facebook page which suffered from long neglect saw many new additions including ones  from South Africa, Serbia, Italy, Thailand, Mexico and Ecuador as we reached out and explored our new found status in life.


  It's simply hard to put into words all the experience that was crammed into this past year.  It was to say the very least, eventful and filled with wonder.

We approach the New Year feeling happy, fortunate and blessed, knowing another year lies ahead that promises to eclipse the one we're leaving behind.

To all who read this who were a part of that experience: thank you and may your New Year bring you friendship, love, peace and wonderful experiences to enjoy!

Roger and Suzanne.

Finishing up the old year: Part 2

    As the New Year approaches,  we noticed there's still a few loose ends to tidy up as we prepare for the new one which will see us traveling to a new home in a new country.  We took a break to spend time in Florida with family celebrating the Christmas season.  What a wonderful time it was and how quickly it passed!  It seems like just yesterday we were celebrating the completion of preparing our documents and getting our 12-IX visa but that was over a month ago.

    One of those loose ends is responding to the request by Mary and Steve from South Of Zero for postings about cost of living and medical/dental care for their roundup.  Sorry about our tardiness, guys, but we were really enjoying the family time, the holidays and the time off!

    We recognize the importance of  SOZ's planned roundup because cost of living and medical care probably makes almost everyone's list as reasons for considering ex-patriation to Ecuador.  Both were certainly strong factors in our decision to do so and were on our "questions to research list" as we headed to Cuenca in mid June for a two month trial run.   We rented a short term 3 bedroom condo so our rental was a little higher than that of typical residents.  Despite the fact that our intent was "trial living", we  ate out more than normal.  We also did sightseeing and shopping well above and beyond that of typical residents.  In short, our expenses for the two months probably reflected a middle ground between full time residents and giddy vacationers.  Despite being part residents/part tourists, our expenses were well less two thirds of what we would have paid just for our basic living expenses for a comparable eight week period back at our previous residence in Arizona.

   We took time to visit medical facilities during our stay (we even toured the medical museum at the University's old school of medicine..what a hoot that was!).   With escalating costs in the U.S. and with Roger being a cancer survivor,  both the quality and cost of medical care were big issues for us to address in making a decision to live in Ecuador.   An examination of medical facilities and hearing accounts of other expat experiences in the medical care system were overwhelmingly positive and highly reassuring.  We proceeded to an exploratory visit with Dr. Gabriel Tenorio Velez after hearing positive feedback on this physician from three different sources on.  Our initial visit involved getting acquainted and scheduling physical exams for both us.  During that visit, Dr. Gabe assisted in getting Roger restocked on his blood pressure medication.  We discovered that the very same medication was, indeed, available in Ecuador but under a different name.   A big surprise came when we discovered that the cost (total cost) for a thirty day supply was only $7.03! That was roughly 1/3rd of the co-pay cost alone for the same medication back home.

 (Note:  we came back with a six month supply...enough to last until we planned to return to Ecuador....Dr Gabe wrote a prescription for six months not because it was needed in Ecuador but in order to alleviate any issues in getting through customs in the U.S. upon our return. Our cost was under $47.  That's about the same as the patient copay cost for either two one-month refills or for one three-month refill when the insurance company would allow it!)

Our two physical exams lasted an hour each.  We were given a list of lab tests to have done which included all the typical blood work associated with a physical back home.  Roger also had a PSA test added.  We both had a complete urine analysis done and we added both blood and stool testing for parasites.

  We had our exams on a Wednesday, went to the appropriate laboratory for the tests on Thursday and picked up the results on Friday.  In Ecuador, lab tests are given only to the patient.  They are YOUR test results.  A doctor at the lab handled us the results in booklet format and offered to answer any questions.  The following week we returned to Dr. Gabe's office with our results.  Each of us had a forty-five minute appointment.  We reviewed test results and talked about setting up a health care plan for each of us upon our return.  We also discussed things to do upon our return to help us in dealing with the altitude change adjustment we faced on the first trip down.  By this point in time, we were both certain that this was going to our regular physician.  That was before Dr. Gabe offered us a ride home back to our building because we were his last appointments of the day!  (We expressed our gratitude but had already planned to walk a few blocks to the centro for dinner.)  The good doctor was also concerned about taking so much time for our appointments, explaining that he allocated extra time for gringos because of the language issues (Honestly, his English comprehension was never in question on our part.)  We were delighted to have a doctor that cared enough to spend the time and cover our concerns in such a thorough manner..it was our kind of medicine!

  We were thrilled with our discoveries.   Prescription drug cost was affordable, general medical care was thorough, competent and prompt (We accomplished the entire process in less than ten days from our first visit and could have completed it sooner but for schedule conflicts on our part....not the doctor's or the lab!)   The best news was yet to come.  Our expenses for the entire process I described above was less than $180.00 including our dinner out!

  Hopefully, the above story is helpful to others. We would urge each of our readers, however,  to do your own due diligence and research as each person's medical needs are different.   The extra time we spent to do our medical research was highly reassuring for us.  Affordable, decent quality medical became a fundamental part of our decision to move.   We look forward to becoming residents of Cuenca, Ecuador as we continue our journey "juntos en el camino de la vida".




Final note:


We mentioned South of Zero in our opening.  If you enjoy reading about Ecuador and aren't logging onto or subscribing to  www.southofzero.wordpress.com  to read their nicely done daily review of blogs...you should be!  It has been a constant checkpoint throughout our exploration process and continues to be a regular part of the way we keep ourselves informed and entertained.  The bloggers listed there have provided us with valuable information as well as great insight into life in general, as well as life in Ecuador.  The ones we've been fortunate enough to meet personally in our travels have been welcoming and helpful.   Mary and Steve, your SOZ efforts are appreciated and we hope to be able to thank you in person when you get to make your transition to Ecuador!

Paperwork Seems Never Ending Part II: "There's a light at the end of the tunnel!"

For the Yazells, The Phoenix Ecuadorian Consulate Office
was the light at end of a very long tunnel! 

Good news:  there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

More good news: it's not an oncoming train.

Those statements reflect some of the emotion of the past few weeks in getting our paperwork together.  It's been a real roller coaster ride as it probably has been for most people going through this experience.  We can't emphasize enough:  do your homework, research as much as you, ask questions and when you think you have all the answers, start the process all over again.  Just when you think you've got it down pat is usually when you discover...ooops, here's something we didn't know or here's something we misinterpreted or here's something new that we simply didn't uncover.  I'm sure it's happened to just about everyone whose gone through this process.

Let's begin by correcting a couple of miscues from our previous blog where we listed the necessary items for the 12-IX and 9-I visa:

I mentioned that the we were using the social security benefit statement to cover the financial security requirement for the 12-IX......WRONG.....we needed a current bank statement showing access to enough funds to support us during the term of our visa...thank goodness we found that out before we came to the consulate for our final visit and application approval process (again you can't ask too many questions and the only stupid question is the one you FAIL to ask!)

The other erroneous item in the previous blog concerned our process for the 9-I.  I mentioned we had to get notarized legalized color copies of passports from the consulate to send to attorneys in Ecuador.   WRONG again...the consulate office here does not do that.  Those color copies have to be legalized IN Ecuador.  We will be sending color copies of the first two pages of passports to our attorneys, in fact, two sets, one with a notarized statement from us that these are true and accurate copies.  However, they will have to legalized before a notary in Ecuador (our lawyers will handle this and be able to do it without us being present due to the power of attorney we placed with them before we left.

As a point of education to our readers, notaries in Ecuador are very different from notaries in the USA. Here in the US a notary serves to witness and document signatures, verifying that they were signed in their presence by the actual person signing the document.  In Ecuador, a notary is actually an official of the judicial system who is empowered to attest to the proper form and legality of a document presented to him.  It is two entirely different processes and it is very easy for us gringos to confuse them but the distinction is critically important in getting your proper documents filed.

OK, is everybody scratching their heads yet over all the details?   Well trust us, we did a bunch of that but it was all worth while  because on the 23rd of November we walked into the the Ecuadorian Consulate in Phoenix with our stack of documents in hand.  After thanking Gabby for her patience during all our phone calls and presenting our carefully prepared pile of "stuff", it was wonderful to hear her say "Your documents are just what is needed...I'm very proud of the work you did." Our only "glitch, as it were, was bringing a money order for $400 instead of the $450 that was really required.
(Note: the Phoenix consulate ONLY accepts money orders for payment, some consular offices may accept cash, as well,  but there are no payments of document fees  accepted by credit or debit cards, personal or even certified checks..again, another of the many questions you may need to ask, what fees and how is payment made?)  In any case, while our work was being reviewed and the documents prepared and stamped, Suzanne waited in the consulate while Roger ran for a supplemental money order.

Here's a breakdown of the fees we paid at the consulate office:

Roger's application fee:                                                              $   30
Roger's 12-IX Visa fee                                                                  200
Suzanne's application fee                                                                 30
Suzanne's 12-IX Visa fee   (spousal rate)                                         50
Certification of Roger's police report                                                50
Certification of Suzanne's police report                                            50
Certification letter for Roger's Social Security benefit statement       40

Total paid to consulate:                                                                 $450

In addition to the above fees, we've paid $10 each for police record searches, no charge for obtaining social security benefit statement, $25 for certified copies of marriage license,  $4 per document for apostillization in Illinois,  $ 10 per document for apostillization in Arizona plus some miscellaneous fed ex fees and  $150 for certified translations.  Expenses yet to come include about $1500 in lawyer's, visa and application fees.     For readers who have inquired about cost, we recommend budgeting roughly $3,000 for the process.  You may get by for less (some people don't necessarily go for the 12-IX) or you could conceivably spend more if you don't do it right the first time!

The office space on the other side of that door and window
is legally considered to be part of the nation of Ecuador!

Bottom line, we walked out of the Ecuadorian consulate with our 12-IX's and stamped passports in hand plus the final items we need to send to our attorneys for the 9-I application.   We will still need to register our visas  and obtain our censo cards when we arrive in Ecuador in January but after a year of work, it seemed a very special day indeed and we celebrated afterwards at one of our favorite Phoenix wine bars.

One hour after arriving, Roger and Suzanne proudly
display their passports and their 12-IX visa certificates.

As we gather on on Thanksgiving Day with some of our friends here in the Valley of The Sun, we will be giving thanks not only for their fellowship but for the bounties of life that enabled us to complete this  important step that enables us to continue....juntos en el camino de la vida!

The Paperwork Seems To Be Never Ending!

Roger and Suzanne earlier this year in Cuenca,
the city that they soon will call "home".

For the past few weeks, we've been back in Arizona.  While we've taken time to visit old haunts and friends, the principal reason for being here is preparing for our return to Cuenca, the city we now think of as "home".

Our projects center around three important tasks:

1. Getting our paperwork together for a 12-IX visa.

This will be reviewed and finalized at the consulate office in Phoenix and will be needed to get us back to Ecuador for our final home search and prep for our immigration papers.  For this task we needed to obtain:

       A statement of assets or income covering our stay.... (for us a statement of  Roger's social security benefits does the job).

        A statement of police record for both Suzanne and Roger covering our locale of residence for the past 5 years.  This was obtained from the Mesa police department (the city in which we had resided for twelve years) We then had that apostilled at the Arizona Secretary of State's office.
       
Certified marriage certificate for Roger and Suzanne.  We were married in LaSalle county, Illinois so we got that from the county clerks office and had mailed to a friend's home in Arizona.  It arrived shortly after we did but we discovered it can't be apostilled here...it has to be apostilled by the Illinois Secretary of State's office.  Onto the internet we went to discover how and where to send the certified copies (we also need this for the other set of documents).  Because of time we sent that off via FedEx with a prepaid FedEx return but discovered a few days later that mail requests for apostillization aren't processed for 2-3 weeks after receipt.  A few pleading phone calls later,  a helpful supervisor managed to cut some of the red tape and it 's only taking a week to 10 days (note our crossed fingers, here).  We hope to have that in hand shortly.

      A formal request to the Consul General for the visa stating the purpose of the request.  Since we will be applying for immigration status as part of our stay under the 12-IX, the normal requirement to have attached copies of a return airline ticket should be waived (or so we are told by the helpful lady at the consulate office here in Phoenix!)

      Four passport quality color photos of each of us are also required for the 12-IX.

2.  Getting our paperwork ready to apply for resident status:

      We actually began this process when we were in Ecuador earlier for our 2 month stay.  We had retained lawyers in Cuenca and had given them notarized powers of attorney to handle and begin our application prior to our return in January.   This will get our applications in before January, the typical time when all sort of changes in procedures occur in the government offices in Quito.  As long as the documents and our application are submitted before those changes (if any) occur we shouldn't be delayed.

Passport photos of us (in this case, only two) were need with this application and those were done in Cuenca and left with our attorneys along the power of attorney paperwork and photocopies of our passports.

      In addition, we will shortly be sending to our attorneys the following:

Just some of the many documents we've prepared and gathered .

       Legalized color copies of our passports.  These have to include a statement from each of us that the copies are true and accurate representations of our passports.  They have to be notarized and legalized at the consulate office here.

      The same statement of income from Social Security, duly apostilled  We hit one little hitch in getting that apostille done as the State of Illinois can't apostille an original federal agency document.  However, a helpful lady at the Arizona Secretary of State's office knew how to tackle that technicality...she simply prepared a notarized certified copy of the original and was able to apostille that.

 In addition, the letter from Social Security has to be presented to and certified by, a consular official here and his statement has to be attached.

      More copies of the police reports for Roger and Suzanne (by the way, this is a new requirement added this past year for the immigration application)  These are, of course,  apostilled.

      The apostilled certified marriage certificate is also required here (so yes, we have two copies in our FedEx packet en route back across the country...we hope!)

       In addition, translations of the above documents en Espanol have to be prepared, certified as to accuracy and then those are also apostilled and attached to the original documents. (Note: the translation of troublesome certified marriage certificate was actually apostilled HERE in Arizona, not in Illinois.  You see, the translation itself and its certification of accuracy occurred here in Arizona and not in Illinois...you really do have to pay attention to the nitty gritty details).

We're taking the added step of scanning our key documents and emailing PDF's of them to our attorneys in Cuenca so they can review them and assure that they are in order before we send them off.  Again, you can't pay too much attention to details.

3.  Preparing our personal property for shipping to Ecuador:

As if we didn't have enough to keep us busy, we've been at our storage unit here in the Valley of the Sun, revisiting our property we've had stored in anticipation of our eventual move.  We've re-examined all of it in order to determine that, yes, we do want to take this stuff.  We also had to repack some items based on consultations with our shipping agent as to how to best prepare the items for loading onto an overseas container.  Most of our boxes had pretty good inventory lists attached but we had some additional inventory to do and we have to separate our inventory listing from the actual physical boxes themselves.  (It is advisable to NOT list your contents on your shipped cartons in order to reduce the possibility of petty theft losses during shipment.)

Items in storage, numbered and inventoried, ready for the container!

We also revisted our items, based on having lived in Ecuador for 2 months and discovered that we needed to add some stuff  (we also disposed of a few items and yes, adding items means a little shopping is thrown in here on our "to-do list", as well).

 Our lists are being incorporated into an excel spreadsheet that will list each shipping unit by number, list the contents and estimated value.  This will provide the basis of a shipping list for our shipper, as well as a list for insurance purposes.  (Note, we are insuring for loss en route but not damage to contents.  Our shipper advises damage claims are very difficult to process and even more difficult to recoup.   However, the loss of an entire container, while not overly common, certainly can and does occur. This kind of loss is easily verified, the claim seldom contested if you have documented contents and value correctly and should be insured for prior to shipment.)

Oh, did we mention that the aforementioned shipping list has to be translated, as well?   It's critically important to have that in the same format and style as the English version as this will help avoid headaches and questions when being received and inspected at customs in Ecuador.  Having the numbers both large and visibile from multiple sides of your items is also important.

We owe a lot of thanks to our friends, both ex-patriate and Ecuadorian, who visited with us, gave us tips and advice on what to expect, how to prepare and on how to do some much needed homework.  The best advice we could give to anyone starting this process is that it is simply impossible to do too much homework and too little preparation.  It is, however, easy to overlook what appears to us as minor details that might cause headaches later on.  By all means, getting a good attorney is absolutely essential from our point of view.  If you are in the USA, taking time to make an exploratory visit to your governing Ecuadorian consulate office is well worth the investment of time, as well. Plan your visits to both well and come prepared with plenty of questions.

In addition to all of the above, we've arranged with friends here in Arizona to be on hand to supervise our container loading (by the time it occurs, we will be either en route or actually back in Ecuador).  We also have an experienced Ecuadorian friend lined up to help us with the transport of our items from the Port of Guayaquil to Cuenca and clearance through customs in Cuenca.  We were advised by by parties both here and in Ecuador that clearing in customs in the Cuenca is much preferable in case any questions or issues arise. Having an experienced Ecuadorian agent on hand at custom clearance to handle translation and help tackle any issues is also one of the greater investments in assistance you can make.

During the midst of all this work, we have realized that our recent return to Arizona has marked the one year anniversary of when we sold our home here and began this adventure of deciding how, when and where to retire and live overseas.  It has been a long, always exciting, sometimes daunting, journey but we remain full of happy and excited anticipation about our future.

We're looking forward soon to a short break from these tasks to celebrate the holidays with our family and then it will be time to move on to Ecuador and our next round of tasks in "settling down" in our new home.

We are, indeed, blessed with good fortune and happy to be continuing our journey: "juntos en el camino de la vida".